The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. Looks pretty sweet . In use, it seemed to all but disappear. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. check out the, Welcome to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Forum, we hope you like what you find here and we strongly encourage you to. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. All Rights Reserved. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. Just Got this in my e-mail . Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. Pistol: Semi-Auto. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. I would go with the sig. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. Honey badger .300bo 5. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Its very handy. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Subscriber Services. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. Outdoors, only the Winchester FMJ produced enough flash to be visible to me when shooting. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. The only mistake Springfield made on an otherwise terrific design, was to have the hand guard ride over the threads. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. You have entered an incorrect email address! The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. Learn how your comment data is processed. Apr 24, 2017 The detent spring was quite heavy and the grip necessary to compress it proved awkward. I bought a Tread on a whim. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. What is it? The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. 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The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. What more can you ask for? The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. JavaScript is disabled. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. | But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. check out the. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? No problems except for the gas blowback. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. Sig Sauer. Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. Lets see if our money was well spent. At the range, my first order of business was zeroing the Rattler and shooting five-shot groups with it at 50 yards using loads from Barnes, Hornady, Lehigh Defense and Sig. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. The Judge has been promoted! The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Minuteman. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. 4. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. This is a 100-yard rifle. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. I'm a sucker for. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. I was really happy . Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. Compare. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Probably, but not at 900 fps. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. ". *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well.